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Performance or Praise?
Where do you draw the line between 'musicians performing worship songs' and 'worshipping musicians'? How can you tell one from the other? Which do you have in your church group? How can you alter the mindset from one to the other?
Secondly, is it appropriate for secular choirs to perform 'sacred' music as part of a church service? If not, why not? (I was noticing on a billboard outside the cathedral next to where I work that one of the local [secular] choirs was doing a series of performances and it got me thinking)
Secondly, is it appropriate for secular choirs to perform 'sacred' music as part of a church service? If not, why not? (I was noticing on a billboard outside the cathedral next to where I work that one of the local [secular] choirs was doing a series of performances and it got me thinking)
Tags: choirs, performance, praise
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Daniel Read on -
Always a difficult line to draw, as people often have such conflicting motives - how often have you caught yourself thinking "I played that well, I wonder if anyone noticed?". And, when you are striving for quality in what you do, it is possible for it to become just a performance. But I think if you are aware of the problem, then that's usually a good start - certainly this is what I told our resident opera singer who was worrying about just this sort of thing.
Some good (and obvious?) questions to ask - I'm sure there are more:
1) Does what I am doing point to me or to God?
2) Is it helpful to lead others in their worship of God?
3) Is it appropriate in a corporate setting? Does it build up the body of Christ? (I guess I'm partly thinking of Paul's "orderly worship" here...)
(so, for example CS's leader who went "somewhere else" might fall down on 2 and 3 even if 1 was OK.... But these questions still leave room - in fact encourage - striving for excellence).
Sometimes, especially the last few weeks in fact, I've felt a bit like I was "going through the motions" when leading, not fully engaged. Although this isn't ideal, I think it's still OK - it is worship - if I am still answering yes to these questions.
I think you can alter the mindset in many ways - through your own example, through teaching..... even through where you stand to lead - there are arguments (I know) for being up on a stage at the front but I always preferred to be off to the side and out of the way!
On the secular choirs thing: it's a difficult question, because it depends what you mean by "appropriate". If they did perform, I wouldn't class it as "worship" because they wouldn't consciously be pointing to God (even if they did it without meaning to) - they woud be performing. But (1) it may still be possible for others to be lifted in worship to God through it, and (2) you never know, they might find themselves surprised to be engaged with God through the service.... so I think it could be done in an appropriate way.
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Permalink Reply by Dave Clemo on -
Music is music. There is no distinction or difference between a secular Am or a Christian one.
Cathedrals are excellent venues for orchestral and choral music. The acoustics are good and you can get a good crowd. The revenue helps meet the running costs and you might attract a few people along to a service. What's the problem?
I've met a few musicians (some very famous) who believe that "performance worship" is a valid concept. Who wrote "Whatever you do, do for the glory of God"? If you're going to do something what's wrong with giving your best?
In my experience the conflict occurs when the people in your group have mixed motives. The best groups are those with a united and common vision. Work on that and it'll all work out
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Permalink Reply by wahba on -
I think the biggest question for our community of worshippers regarding performance is this:
"What are we expecting the congregation to be doing at this moment, and how are we going to guide them to that response?"
Are we going for corporate singing? Postural worship such as raising hands and clapping? Physical response in our sanctuary by coming forward for prayer, communion, candle lighting, pinning prayer requests on the cross (we have stations for each in the room)? Or do we want them to sit in quiet reflection?
If the answer is "we'll just have them sit and listen", then for our community, we've decided it isn't worship and doesn't really have a place for our worship team.
I'd say that you have to decide for your community what is the 'expected response'.
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Permalink Reply by Dave Payn on -
That's a very good question, and as other have said a fine line sometimes, and of course we should not judge, But I have found when poeple want to come and join the worship team, I will sometimes see how they worship when they are not playing or singing on the stage, its good for band members to be part of the congregation from time to time and give them Sunday's off, some musicians and singers may not like this and this can show where there heart is and find it hard to be a worshipper first.
When the band is on the stage we encourage them to be free in worship, so if they want to put down their instrument and just kneel the can, or if a singer wants to sing out a prophetic song they can, but we always stress the importance of keeping in touch with what the band is doing and the way the worship is going, this means keeping eyes on the pastor and the worship leader and others in the band.
I hope that this makes sense and has come OK to you.
Be blessed
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Permalink Reply by Julia Chantrell on -
It can be tricky... like when you get so involved in the worship that you miss signals and make a major blooper...
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Permalink Reply by Phil Holburt on -
I may upset some folk with this but I'm going to 'cut to the chase' on this one.
We are here to lead people in worship, we are not here to 'perform' . We are supposed to play & sing to the best of our abilities. We are here to lead people to God in worship, we are not here to direct attention away from God to ourselves.
I saw a christian artist once describe himself as 'performance worship' - there is no such thing.
We are soley here to direct peoples attention to Jesus to divert attention to ourselves is Sin.
May God forgive me for the times I done that very thing.
There is no reason or excuse we can present to defend this, we are here to make sure that the focus is on Jesus.
Please don't berate me for this, like I say, may God forgive me for the times I've commited that particular Sin.
God Bless
Phil H.
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Permalink Reply by Lorraine Doswell on -
I wouldn't dream of berating you, I totally admire you for your direct honesty, I wish there were more people like you. From the very start of my involvement in worship,I prayed that I would always remember why I was doing this and to always, always give all glory to Him. It may sound silly, but I also prayed that should I ever forget this, that He would remind me - to this very day He always has. God bless Phil.
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Permalink Reply by Dave Clemo on
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Amen.
Performance worship?
pah! A contradiction in terms.
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Permalink Reply by Rob Pember on -
Perhaps we need to look also at other areas such as art, dance, media, ...even flower arranging
Those who are serving in those areas are worshipping God and perhaps the idea of potentially distracting people from God isn't thought of like with musicians (maybe dance could as the dancers are being watched) - they give their all, be it a painting, video etc without fear of it being labeled a 'performance'. However, when it comes to music, we can end up holding back for fear of performance - then are we giving our all to God and truly worshipping Him?
As worshippers, I think we can do performance providing we are worshipping in that. Problems arise when a song written for God's glory is played without the glory given to Him.
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Permalink Reply by Phil Holburt on
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We can't perform in the strictest sense. The art of performance involves captivating the attention of the audience.
I agree we need to play as proficiently as possible to the very best we can offer God. We need to present the songs in a manner that enables the worshippers to engage with God.
But we cannot 'perform' in worship, we cannot draw attention to ourselves and hope that people will be drawn to God.
You can give it all you have without fear of performance - just don't do anything to purposely draw attention to yourself. Focus on your role in the band, play to the best of your ability without thought of how good you are or how people are getting off on your playing and you can't go far wrong.
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Permalink Reply by Julia Chantrell on
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Simple solution - only ever use midi files...
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Permalink Reply by Phil Holburt on
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Spoken like a true keyboard player :o)
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