guitar amps Valve, digital, transistor, combo's or seperates.....

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Permalink Reply by Dave Clemo on 28 November 2008 at 1:24pm

It's what works for you. Having used every amp from big Marshall valve amps and 4x12 cabs down to di to the desk with varying degrees of success some points are worth noting.
A big valve amp might give you a great tone but if it drowns out everything else on the platform it's a no go. I have worked with a young guitarist with rich parents. He had a Marshall all valve amp, a 4x12 and a brand new Gibson Les Paul. No-one else could hear themselves!
I've also worked with a guitarist who had a zoom pedal with loads of distortion going through a tiny practice amp. Ugh! Swat that fly!
I recently worked with an American singer/songwriter and his guitarist played a strat through a Pod into the PA and it sounded great. My friend Ian Price from Inheritance plays through a Pod into the PA and it also sounds great. Mind you these guys are great players.
These days it doesn't matter like it used to. 70s tranny amps were horrible. I had a couple of HH 2x12 combos which were loud but the tone!!!
It's about tone, about balance, about the suitability within your group. It's not about ego, about one-upmanship, about having the biggest, the newest, the latest,etc.

About digital modelling amps- I played a gig recently with a band who have to remain nameless as certain members are known to the forum. The guitarist brought two digital modelling amps and about six guitars with him, almost one for each song they played. I had a listen and couldn't tell one sound from the other once the band were playing. Most if not all of the subtleties are inaudible once the band starts playing, so why not get one or two sounds max, one rhythm sound, one or two good lead sounds, use one guitar and save a hernia?

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Permalink Reply by Rob B on 28 November 2008 at 1:45pm

We've kind of covered a lot of this ground on the electric guitarists group forum already but basically its as Dave has pointed out, its what works best for you.

Personally I'm a valve fan myself and have two different valve based setups to cover all occasions. A big rig with a 4 x 12 when I need it (although I would point out it doesn't need to be ear splittingly loud, 4 x 12s do have a particular tone which is hard to replicate) and a small set up using a 30watt valve combo. Horses for courses.
Other people make digi modelling setups work well for them....I've tried a few and tho the tone is good it never "feels" right, hence I stick with valves (for now anyway).

I would also support Daves point about knowing how to use your gear being probably more important then what the gear is. Some of the worst guitar sounds I've ever been subjected to came from a guy using a PRS thro a Boogie Triple Rectifier. The expression "All the gear, no idea" sprang to mind. Having the best gear in the world won't make you sound great. Know how to use the gear you have will.

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Permalink Reply by Dave Clemo on 28 November 2008 at 3:31pm

Don't forget those who play a certain guitar through a certain amp because their heroes do the same.
Or those who've been hoodwinked into buying good gear because it will make them better players. This is true up to a point. A decent guitar with a good neck is easier to play than a bad one, but there are limits.
A good guitar won't make up for my deficiency in technique or the fact that I can't play in time (I can btw)
A £2000 GBP guitar won't make me four times better than a £500 GBP guitar.

I agree with Rb's comment about 4x12 cabs. However, I'm no fan of their bulk, or their weight!

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Permalink Reply by CS on 28 November 2008 at 6:18pm

Another +1 for what works best.

For me it's valve amps all the way. I use a 10w combo a 15w head with a 2x12 cab and a 1/2w head with either the combo speaker or the cab. I know that it wasnt part fo the question but I also use overdrive boxes.

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Permalink Reply by Tim S Kemp on 28 November 2008 at 7:38pm

Simulation, DI and IEM please! All the sounds, all the FX, all the tone, no hiss, no hum, no crackle, balanced feed, no stage noise, no feedback.

Unless you'd prefer to play in the car park with a radio mic of course.

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Permalink Reply by Rob B on 29 November 2008 at 1:52pm

Well, y'see, I have to disagree here.

All the sounds? Erm...no. All the sounds the manufactures think you need possibly.
All the FX? See above.
All the tone? Definitely not. Ever done a side by side test? Some modelling gear is quite good I'll grant you, but not all of it and the best is not as good as the best valve gear.
No hiss, hum or crackle. Possibly, but good quallity, well maintained valve gear isn't noisey and I've heard some strange squeeks and squawks from modelling gear too.
Balanced feed. Okay, but your giving the vocalists SM58s to sing thro so what's the problem in putting a SM57 in front of the guitar amp?
No stage noise. So all IEM and the drummers on ekit too I guess? Have fun getting the IEM mix working well then!
No feedback? The only time I get feedback is when I want it, and that's something modelling really doesn't do well.

I think the two big advantages for modelling are cost and portability, but you have to compromise on so much else as far as I can see.

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Permalink Reply by Tim S Kemp on 29 November 2008 at 7:42pm

If we are talking concert sound then I'd agree with you - but the big difference with church sound is that it is useful to keep the stage noise down to a minimum, hence the number of drummers you see struggling with hotrods or confined to a perspex box being deafened by their own talent instead of just playing an electronic kit.

IEM mixes work very well indeed thank you. I'm yet to meet a guitarist (and I've met a few) who have a traditional stomp box chain into an amp that doesn't either have a noise gate in there, or need one by the time it gets back to my mixer, those that use multi-fx or modellers have a far better chance of success.

Interestingly, there are two SM58s in my spares box, just in case someone insists (and a 57) - there's better mics for less money these days.

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Permalink Reply by Rob B on 30 November 2008 at 12:53am

Minimum stage volume I can accept but you seem to be suggesting stage volume should be zero which seems a bit impractical. If it's possible to get good guitar tone at low volume (ie quiet enough to talk over) I can't see the problem. It's a bit more tricky for drummers tho and probably would make a good discussion elsewhere on this site. ekit is great in principle but the monitoring needs to be spot on otherwise disaster ensues.

If you've got IEM working well, then well done, I take my hat off to you. Once again that might make an interesting discussion elsewhere on the site as my knowedge of IEM and the experiences of others I know who've tried/used it is mixed (no pun intended) to say the least.

The trad pedal chain problem usually can be solved with decent quality leads, decent quality power supplies and a buffer device (gigrig humdinger or similar). I actually only have two pedals infront of my amp and one is a Line 6 stomp box modeller. I really do believe digimodelling has its place, my MM4 is a handy piece of kit (once you chuck away the Line6 power supply and use something less noisey incidentally).

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Permalink Reply by Rob B on 29 November 2008 at 1:25pm

I started a discussion on this very subject back in March on the Guitart Effects group. Its called (rather imaginitively I feel) "Valves vs digital modelling" if anyone is interested.

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Permalink Reply by David Bull on 29 November 2008 at 6:20pm

One of the Guy's in our band has a valve amp, which is great until it suddenly and completely randomly produces a very loud hum. (More of a continuous burp). It's not too bad as long as someone can reach and thump it. It always stops if you thump it.

David Bull.

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Permalink Reply by Rob B on 29 November 2008 at 6:52pm

"It always stops if you thump it."

I've found that technique works with drummers too! :)

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Permalink Reply by David Bull on 29 November 2008 at 6:58pm

Bagpipes!!!!!

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