Digital Drum Kit.

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Permalink Reply by Eric on 3 December 2008 at 10:14pm

We went for electronics drums 18 months ago. Fantastic. The musicians love it – they can hear themselves play. The drums sound better, and with better balance. I have not once been told the drums were too loud even when I turn them right up to put a dramatic beat to a song. So I would sya go for it, single most effective thing we did to improve the sound of the music group.

I can’t remember what kit we have, I will look when I am at church on Friday.

Obviously, you will need a fold back speaker dedicated to the drummer. Do use a good DI box because the drums have very high impact energy and they sound nasty through cheap DI boxes. You do need quite a bit of headroom on your mixer, amps and speakers too.

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Permalink Reply by David Bull on 3 December 2008 at 10:33pm

I'm afraid all I know about the PA. is how to recognise my microphone. Stuart puts it in fount of my and it usually works. However having reconciled myself to the possibility that the digital drums might not sound quite as good as the real ones I still believe they are the best compromise. The trouble is we have got to pay for them.

How much should we pay for a reasonable to good set?

David Bull.

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Permalink Reply by Eric on 3 December 2008 at 10:46pm

Not sure I think ours was about £900, I think I had eyed up one at about £1,100 which I thought would be better. But, in the context of our morning service the electronic ones sound better. The drummer is not always moaned at for plating too loud, and asked to play quieter.

We had a cheap £20 DI box, which has a single transistor in, it could not cope with the transients. When use a good passive DI box, I guess £80 worth, which sounds so much better.

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Permalink Reply by Mark Johnson on 4 December 2008 at 1:12am

If you want the drummer to feel vaguely comfortable make sure they're real mesh heads instead of rubber pads, but its a premium. Roland V drums are pretty much the standard. If you can't afford all mesh heads really at least stretch to having a mesh snare, else it will feel totally unnatural and will kill the whole vibe. Another thing is that someone will have to be technically and musically minded enough to figure out the most appropriate samples etc and the drum modules can have a plethora of different kits.

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Permalink Reply by Steve Clist on 4 December 2008 at 7:27am

I actually have a Roland V-drum kit at home (it's the TD-12K), and it's great! I actually bought it for recording at home so I didn't have to set up 6+ mics everytime I wanted to record. It isn't the same as an actual drum kit, it does feel slightly different and it's a different experience (in the same way as playing guitar through a loud amp a couple of feet behind you instead of DI'ing straight into the PA), but it is a very acceptable compromise.
I have the mesh heads and they get about as close to drumskins as you're going to get. The cymbals take a bit of getting used to but after an hour or so you'll be fine with it. The real advantage of my kit is that I can still use a double kick pedal and my own hi-hat stand.
It's also very versatile with the different patches, you have your standard kits then you have things like kits with brushes, electronic kits, world percussion all sorts, and you can reprogram any pad to be anything (I have the rim or tom 1 set up as a tambourine and the rim of tom 2 as a cowbell).
My main piece of advice to any church considering getting one is to get your drummers to try them out first , particularly if you're on a budget. The more your able to spend the more it's going to behave like a normal drum kit, but if you're looking at less than a grand you may have to get pads rather than mesh heads, in which case you need to make sure it's something that your drummers are going to be able to live with.

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Permalink Reply by David Bull on 5 December 2008 at 11:39pm

Thank's Steve,

What sort of money are we looking at?

David Bull.

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Permalink Reply by Julia Chantrell on 6 December 2008 at 10:15am

Here is a quick search on ebay for Roland electronic drum kits. Looks like it may well be worth keeping an eye on some of the actual auctions if you're used to using ebay, as you may well be able to pick up something better for a lot less. Although I might recommend waiting until mid-January when all the spoilt brats who've been given expensive elctorinc drum kits for Christmas as trying to flog them on ebay so they can buy a new wii or something...

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Permalink Reply by Dave Clemo on 6 December 2008 at 8:46pm

My friend Andrew Davies at Edenbridge Baptist Church has an electronic drum kit. I think it's a Roland. He also has his own PA that he plays it through. This means that he can control the volume of the kit, he has a loads of different drum kits to choose from-
AND-
The rest of the musicians can still hear him on the stage. Being a musician of advanced years I prefer the sound of real drums but appreciate that they are impractical in certain rooms. However the main function of the drummer is to keep the other musicians in time and if they can't hear him.....?
SO-
By all means use electronic drums but give the drummer a separate dedicated amplification system so that the musicians can hear him (and he can hear himself) This should be as close to the drummer as possible so that he doesn't overplay. Then take a stereo feed from his PA and feed it through the Front of House PA at a level to suit the room and the needs of the congregation. remember that the drums are there for their benefit as well. I've heard it said that drums are God's instruments of unity. A good drum beat will keep an army in step and a congregation singing in time.

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Permalink Reply by Mark Johnson on 6 December 2008 at 8:54pm

Incidentally the higher end roland kits come with two small monitors that mount on the kit itself and a wedge which should more than suffice. And if getting a low or midrange kit then such a system needn't break the bank. The V-drum modules are also designed to take an aux in so the sound guys can route a monitor path direct to the drummers monitoring system.

Dave makes a good point though, make sure the musicians on stage can hear the drums too.

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Permalink Reply by Eric on 6 December 2008 at 8:57pm

You do need a lot of headroom on your mixer and speakers if the drums are only fed through the normal PA. We do, but for lesser spec’d PA systems you may well need dedicate drum PA.

I agree fold back is an issue, some one bought ours and didn’t considered that the drummer would not even hear themselves without foldback. Drum foldback also has to be quite substantial. As I said before you also need a good DI box.

Obviously, the other musicians also need to hear the drums, as Dave says.

I still favour electronic drums in the average church. Electronics drums were the single biggest improvement we have ever made to our music group.

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Permalink Reply by Dave Clemo on 6 December 2008 at 10:17pm

My son is a drummer and he tells me he overplays if he can't hear himself. In other words, he hits the kit harder to compensate for not being able to hear himself. I understand this because I overplay my guitar if I can't hear myself. This destroys my tone and feel and prevents me from playing fluidly.
That's why good monitoring is vital.My son Chris needs to hear his bass drum so a normal wedge just isn't man enough. Look at a rock band's live set up and look at the size of the drum monitor. It may seem surprising that it's not the guitar and vocals dominating the mix but it's the sound of the drums.
Electronic drums magnify that problem. You guitarists try playing a solid electric guitar wearing ear defenders. Note how you play harder to try and compensate for the lack of volume. Now you know why the drummer needs the best possible monitoring system..

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Permalink Reply by Eric on 6 December 2008 at 10:37pm

Monitor - but that’s just a waste of money isn't it ! Last week I was told the trouble with our sound is all the personal monitor speakers. Mind you that was from someone who had just bought a low cost keyboard with internal speakers pointing at the ceiling that flood the whole stage area with sound.

I do have to agree though. An electronic drum kit is the answer to most of the problems that small and medium churches have with drums being too loud and defining the other musicians, but the foldback issues etc must not be ignored. Drums have large impact sounds and those carry enormous amounts of energy, which is why a good DI box, and plenty of headroom on the rest of the PA are essential to get a good sound.

If you think about it the size of the base drum the one with the foot pedal, ( I am not sure of its proper name) then to reproduce that well you need a speaker approaching the same size – ouch.

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