Sound Checks

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Permalink Reply by Jason Mageehan on 26 June 2008 at 1:44am

I have a headphone amnesty going for live sound guys. Seriously, if you need to wear headphones for more than 30 seconds you're doing it wrong! (unless you're doing IEM's in which case, good luck)

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Permalink Reply by Eric on 3 July 2008 at 6:36pm

For judging the live sound I would normally agree with you. Headphones are for checking individual channels and also the recording mix. But I have a slight handicap. I wear a hearing aid, this has two problems,

1) I am not a sensitive to ring as I used to be,
2) some days I have tinnitus that if anyone else could hear it they would all be looking at me instead of the front.

Headphones allow me to turn the volume up high of an individual channel and so hear if I have ring that needs to be adjusted out. Sometimes I look at one of the other people who is sensitive to sound quality and if he is not looking at me or agitated I know the whistle is my tinnitus. Of course I can now switch to Loop to check the mix on the hearing aid loop, something most sound guys cannot (actually it is the only time I use loop), and it can be really useful when checking things out before the service because I can feed the mix I want to listen to the hearing aid loop and no one else can hear.

So I use headphones where a decade ago I would not, I just have to remember to turn them right down when the small children want to come and see what I am doing and listen through the headphones. But I agree live sound is what a sound guy needs to listen too, as other than tape and loop it is what everyone else is listening to.

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Permalink Reply by Tim S Kemp on 3 July 2008 at 11:51pm

Dude - with all due respect, should you be doing sound if you have hearing problems?

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Permalink Reply by Eric on 4 July 2008 at 4:35am

Fair comment.

I have said to several of the musicians and deacons more than once that they are to polity tell me when I should stand aside, as I would hate for people to be unhappy with the sound and embarrassed to say because “Eric has done it for so many years”.

One member who joined us a couple of years ago said to me recently, “I thought it was mad that we had a deaf man controlling the sound, but now I think it is a positive advantage.” I am also often told I am missed when I am not on the sound desk because people can’t hear well when others are on the sound desk.

With my hearing aid my hearing is not too bad, although my resent increase in tinnitus is bothering me, but that comes and goes, and would be largely cured with a hearing aid in the other ear – its just that a good digital hearing aid is expensive. With my hearing aid there are many people who hear less well than I do, so to be honest if I can’t hear well then lots of the congregation are not hearing adequately either.

But with respect people who are young with A1 hearing often misunderstand what the mix must be like for older people to hear easily. Many churches have a lot of people with hearing loss who are often not well served by the mix. Both my wife and my son would soon tell me if the sound was not good.

Actually when I first got a digital hearing aid after a few years of me always wanting the TV turned up so I could hear, my children were young at the time and said “Daddy, we know you have that new hearing aid but can you turn the TV up so we can hear too.” – I took that hearing aid back and have an extremely good one now that largely restores my hearing.

My point above was that by using headphones at high volume I can still hear the first edge of ringing that I now find I am not as sensitive to as I would like, even though more sensitive than most none sound guys. Actually I still rarely use them for more than 30 seconds as Jason suggested. I know when someone reading at the lectern is talking so quietly that I am in danger of inducing ring by boosting the level too much, so I know when to double check on the headphones. I also know how to get every last db of gain out of the desk, which someone with better hearing may not bother to do because they are less aware just how much the slightly low volume has on many of our congregations ability to understand what is being said.

The number of people with hearing loss in our society and our churches is seriously underestimated, and a mix that is good enough for someone with A1 hearing is not adequate for many people in our congregations.

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Permalink Reply by Jason Mageehan on 4 July 2008 at 4:58am

I think it's great that you are able to keep doing what you're doing. If it's working, why change it?!

What I really posted about was my utter suprise at church PA guys who think that headphones actually have a bearing on the FOH mix, which to a degree they can, but when you look over in a medium size church (say 150-200 people) , and you've looked over because your ears are hurting, and the sound guy has his headphones on and that look of content on his face - Christian brother or not, I feel a small amount of rage.

Headphones are great, and essential, but there's knowing when to use them, which (in my opinion) is in short bursts to check things - keep your focus on serving others, not yourself - after all, who else can hear the wonderful headphone mix that you have?!!

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Permalink Reply by Eric on 4 July 2008 at 11:28am

Jason your right headphones are useless for front of house mix – I rarely use mine, apart from preview, resolving issues, but they do help me hear the slight onset of ring, the sort of level most people ignore but I now don’t hear well.

I hadn’t intended to take this so far off topic, as I was basically agreeing with you. When you have headphones on, you can’t respond as required to the sound everyone else is hearing so yes headphones are an essential tool, but for live sound mix should only be used for short periods, for diagnostic purposes and not for monitoring the mix.

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Permalink Reply by Tim S Kemp on 4 July 2008 at 7:47am

Eric - I'm not singling out anyone with normal hearing loss - as we age we lose the ability to hear, it's a natural process, like losing close vision too. My concern is with hearing damage - you comment about needing high volume in the headphones, yet suffer already from tinnitus. Additionally every hearing aid has a limit to its amplification, and when approaching that limit will compress the amplified signal - this will definitely assist your ability to hear detail and the edge of ringing and is an advantage in this case, the potential problem is that the unaided ear isn't getting that protection and is getting the full volume from the headphones (for example, Sennheiser HD25 will run >130dbA constant) which is going to accelerate the deterioration of that ear.

I have issues with musicians using one IEM and not two for that reason - fact is that we increase the volume by 6db or more if we only listens with one ear.

I disagree with part of your last statement though for a simple reason - the purpose of hearing assistance be it a self contained hearing aid or an induction loop receiver is to bring the individual's hearing back towards normality. Modern digital aids as you know are getting much better at this, and are tailored to the individual's hearing loss much better than older ones. The mix balance will be very little different from person to person if the goal is the same, what most experience is a difference in taste, and what my experience with working with the hearing impaired is that their assistance will not reproduce bass notes properly, and they lose consonant clarity when the music level is too high behind spoken or sung word.

Separate question - does any else use a sound level meter to help judge the absolute sound level in the building? We find it a useful tool!

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Permalink Reply by Eric on 4 July 2008 at 11:34am

Tim - I am very very protective of my hearing – the headphones I use even on full are not loud, but are good because they fit over my hearing aid. I wear ear defenders that are rated for the ground crew of jet airplanes when using any power tool and even mowing the lawn. My hearing aid will actually switch off if the volume gets too loud as they change into protecting my hearing mode. I also only do it for a few seconds to check or tune out the first signs of ring, and the sound level is not close to 130db I can assure you. I have enough hearing loss without adding to it by subjecting my ears to loud sounds. I have also walked out of some Chrisitan events where the sound guy has got carried away and allowed the level to damaging volumes.

My hearing aid is top wack, and no comparison to the old NHS ones which to my mind are next to useless or even the new digital NHS ones, which are still very poor compared with top end private ones. Mine does not distort, and maintains a very consistent level, having done sound for many years I am very fussy over sound, and believe me my hearing aid does an amazing job. There are many people in their 40’s and 50’s walking around with my level of hearing loss who do not wear hearing aids. (Hearing aid loops tend to de-emphasise bass which is one reason I prefer not to use the loop myself.)

On your other topic - I do use a sound level meter, to double check we are not getting too loud, and also occasionally to check speech levels to ensure my judgment is still placing speech into the normal level. Our own hearing is subjective, so a sound level meter is a must to make sure that the volume does not creep up. As you probably know people with hearing loss become increasingly sensitive to loud volumes – so it will be hearing impaired people who first complain its too loud.

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Permalink Reply by Tim S Kemp on 4 July 2008 at 4:11pm

Eric.

I'm glad you've found equipment that works well for you. I've met so many musicians and engineers who you need to raise your voice to to be heard after too many years of hard and loud noise.

Off to the British GP tomorrow - earplugs ready (and IEMs for my radio).

Christians mixing loud - indeed - who would believe it...

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Permalink Reply by Eric on 4 July 2008 at 4:31pm

Thanks Tim – At the moment I think I can continue, but I am not sure for how much longer, the tinnitus in my ear without the hearing aid is my big problem, but that would go if I bought another hearing aid, but I can tell if it is a real whistle or my tinnitus using the headphones, or look at one of the musicians called Dave – if he is looking at me I know he can hear it too, if not it must be my tinnitus.

I wish I had known when younger how damaging sound levels are. Earphones and headphones are so dangerous if turned up loud so you were right to be concerned, and the amount of DIY power tools that are dangerously loud is also concerning.

Christian even too loud – I made a comment about clarity – so they turned the volume up thinking that was a help, actually less volume would have increased the clarity. I think the sound guy thought it was a rock concert rather than a Christian worship event. A rock concert I doubt I would go to even wearing ear protection.

I tried to persuade some 17 year olds on a cabinet making course to wear ear defender when using a router (a fantastic tool but for damaging hearing one of the most effective.) They took no notice until I told them how much my hearing aid cost, when they realised they could have a dream workshop for that much money they started to use hearing protection.

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Permalink Reply by Eric on 4 July 2008 at 6:42pm

We had previously always used floor wedges as foldback. I notice people often call them feed back speakers which is apt as they are a major cause of feedback in small venues. The typical UK church being a small venue.

We have now several very small foldback speakers that are mounted on stands at ear level. This has greatly improved the gain before feedback, and means that on the whole each musician hears what they want to hear. It has also made it much easier to obtain a clean mix with the clarinet microphone only picking up the clarinet instead of the output from the foldback speakers.

Adding these speakers instead of more floor wedges greatly improved fold back for the musicians and also made it easier for the sound guy to avoid ring and squeals. They have also allowed us not to increase the overall front of house volume needed to overcome the foldback level.

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